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Dr. Anoop Kumar

In Conversation with Usha Akella

Transforming health, healthcare, and public health

My core is to bring the experience of Health, what it truly might be, to this world. Yes, that really is the only goal. 

Health as everything. Health as potential. Health as our nature and the nature of this cosmos.

Everything is in service of this.

Bringing it in a way that is tangible, intimate, contoured, and not abstract. All talk about consciousness, metaphysics, etc., is in service of bringing this experience of Health to this world.

-- Dr. Anoop Kumar

Dr. Anoop Kumar is a board-certified doctor in Emergency Medicine in the Washington, DC-Metro area. He is the author of Michelangelo's Medicine and Is This a Dream? He is the Co-founder and CEO of Health Revolution. After an intense spiritual experience akin to a near-death-like experience in medical school, Dr. Kumar realized personally the essence of non-dual wisdom traditions, enlightening his perception of reality, and reconciling various dichotomies from mundane to the spiritual.

He believed that our current system does not know what "health" truly means, and began to integrate a deeper understanding of consciousness with existing medical knowledge. He perceives the nature of reality is connected to the body and its potential for healing. His goal is to build a health discovery ecosystem.

He has appeared in many podcasts to discuss his insights into healing such as with Deepak Chopra, Preetika Rao, the Next level Soul podcast, and many others.

(For webinars, courses, consultations, and explorations of the nature of health, healing, and consciousness.) 
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UA: Dr. Anoop, thank you for the opportunity to foray into the mystical, and medical. You have been working hard to correct the perception of the human being as only a physical entity in the medical field. You highlight the need to understand life in terms of energy processes instead of the dichotomy of matter and spirit. This correction, in your viewpoint, should lead to significant changes in medical science, treatment, and expectations leading to a fuller and truer healthcare system to reflect the reality of who, and what we are. Comment.

Dr.AK: We have been given the idea that what we are is primarily a physical structure. If you ask somebody if they are just a physical thing, they will likely say no, but at the same time may not be able to articulate what they are. If you look at the model of anatomy that we use in allopathy, it conveys the belief that a human being can be adequately represented as a collection of parts. When you stop and think about this, you will realize just how crazy it is. According to our model of anatomy, a living body and a dead body are the same. And that model of anatomy is the basis of diagnosis and treatment. Of course, there is physiology also, but physiology is simply the movement of anatomy. So, if the anatomical model is itself radically incomplete, which it is, then the understanding of physiology will also be radically incomplete, and so will diagnosis and treatment. This is one main reason we see many diseases that are considered either incurable or chronic. 


The key mistake we make is that we believe our model of anatomy is fundamentally based in science. It is not. It is based in philosophy. We have taken on a philosophical assumption, namely that you and I can be adequately represented by a physical model, and that physicality precedes mentality. There's no science proving that. It is merely an assumption. Worse yet, none of us are told it is an assumption. Nobody sat us down in grade school, graduate school, or medical school and said, “From today forward, for the rest of your academic and professional life, we will represent philosophy as science.” Because of the level of detail we have, including organ systems, organs, tissues, cells, macromolecules, molecules, atoms, subatomic particles, even down to elementary particles, we believe our model is entirely scientific, though it begins with philosophy and perception. Volume does not equate to quality. Our biases are forged early in life and carry forth into our

professional careers.

In Vedanta, the model of anatomy is much more complete. It is the Panchakosha model, which identifies all that we know about anatomy in medical science as merely the fifth and outermost layer of our anatomy.

Inspired by this, I have created a model of anatomy adapted for modern times, in which we show each person as layers, beginning with the outermost physical body, and moving progressively inwards to the mental body, energetic body, informational body, and finally the body of consciousness, the deepest body which expresses at different layers of density as the outer bodies. Thus, we are the flow of consciousness at different levels of density. This is our Whole Human Anatomy. Most importantly, this allows multi-directional healing through the many bodies by different mechanisms, beginning in any one of the five bodies, rather than being restricted to the uni-directional healing that always has to begin in the physical body, as it is today. Whole Human Anatomy also honors, integrates, and uplifts Allopathy to serve in its highest role as complementary medicine. Maybe we’ll get into this more later.

UA: Your work-orientation began with a life altering experience in your room in Maryland as a medical student. I’d love for you to share this experience again as it is so crucial to your life journey. This ‘being’ you encountered—was he a manifestation of your own higher self, or another entity?

Dr.AK: The essence of the experience is that I was sitting in my room reading. Suddenly and unexpectedly, it was as if an explosion had gone off. The next thing I knew, it was as though I was sitting in the sun. The body was gone. The room was gone. Most of the mind was gone. I was simply basking in the sun, quite literally, even as the sun. After some timeless period, I was driven to continue, to pass through the sun, as it were. It was clear there was no going back.  At just that crucial moment, a being of light came forth from the sun and suggested this wouldn't be fair, and that there was more to be done. Feeling the truth of this, my progression through the sun portal paused. As soon as I paused, everything snapped back and imploded. There I was again with the body in the room, but everything was different. The room was constructed of light. The space in which the room was situated was also constructed of light. Light was and is the nature of things.

Then I saw this body get up, walk into the bathroom, and look in the mirror. It was as though I did not know this person, but I could know him, possibly.

After that, I went about my business. I had been exposed to so many people who had been through so many experiences that would be considered spiritual, so perhaps in a sense what I had been through was not entirely surprising. In the next year or so I got married and began my training in emergency medicine, and that's when I was forced to reconcile a new way of being with the ways of being in this world. Thus began the lifetime process of integrating and choosing how to express.

As for whether the being of light was my own self or another entity, it depends on your perspective! Both!

UA: You had work to do, so refrained from crossing over and dropping this body. Since then, you’ve worked to bring your mission and vision into this dimension through your work. The two most significant angles of your vision are the Three Minds Framework and Numocore. I think this is very crucial to understand.

Dr.AK: The Three Minds Framework begins with the hypothesis that consciousness is fundamental and matter is its pattern. Basically, it inverts the idea we have all been given in school, which is that the brain creates the mind, or that brain takes precedence over mind. We can put it in simple terms by saying the Three Minds Framework is a full elaboration of what we call the mind-body connection, with powerful implications for healing and daily life. 


Taking the view that consciousness is more fundamental than matter and indeed originates matter, this world can be experienced from three different vantage points, that of the First Mind, Second Mind, and Third Mind. The First Mind is the experience of localized identity, which reflects as a world of localized things, and therefore multiplicity. The localization of identity also creates a split within us, which is recognized in science as the subjective scientist studying an objective world. What is generally unrecognized in today’s First Mind-science is the split is not in the world out there but rather in us, as yogis have been saying for millennia, and now some physicists are also saying as they delve into reconciling the nature of the quantum with daily life. 


The Second Mind is the experience of identity as non-local consciousness. Therefore, it is seeing that space and time are structured in consciousness, and all of the so-called physical world is as well, just as it happens in a dream. Here there is freedom, boundlessness, ease, potential, power, and more, as so many of the ideas we have been given in our lifetimes–scientific, practical, religious, spiritual, and more–start to fall apart and fall away. I am not talking about absolute utopia, but a relative expansion, capacity, and ease that is the stuff of fantasy to First Mind conditioning.


The Third Mind is the state of pure potential. This is the cosmos as potential, prior to patterning as what we interpret as physical, mental, real, imaginary, and so on. 


All Three Minds exist simultaneously. What differs is the apparent identity that perceives this, for lack of a better word. As is identity, so is perception and experience–and science. 


The majority of popular culture, and especially education, is entrenched in the First Mind perspective without realizing it, hence we are limiting our children and ensuring they will need something called spirituality, philosophy, mysticism, or psychedelics later to undo the miseducation. Along the way, they are increasingly likely to be diagnosed with something we call “mental illness” because it is simply unnatural and unhealthy to remain in the First Mind condition. I also want to be clear that I’m not speaking about the Second Mind as some rarified state for super-spiritual people. I do not consider it spiritual at all. It is simply natural and healthy to associate more fully with our nature, rather than remain dissociated in First Mind culture.


The question that then comes up is one of access. How do we begin to evaluate or access these Three Minds? Beautifully and significantly, the answer to this question is also the answer to the question, How do I heal? That’s when we talk about the engines of Nutrition, Movement, Connection, and Rest, which we together call Numocore, taking the first two letters of each engine. By activating Numocore, inflammation decreases, healing happens, the mindbody becomes subtler, and it begins to shift toward the Second Mind. There’s a full elaboration of this process that integrates what we call science and spirituality through Mind-Body-Flow Theory, but for now it’s enough to say that activating Numocore is a series of steps that anyone can take to change their life.

UA: An integrative approach in medicine for health and wellbeing—is what you are emphasizing in your work. Can we go into this?

Dr. AK : What I am emphasizing is health. True Health. What health was supposed to be all along. What health really means. Healing. Wholeness. If we understand that health is wholeness, then there is nothing left to say. There's no need for wellness, well-being, spirituality, and so on. All of this crops up only because of the insufficiency of our understanding of health. When we allow these secondary concepts to enter, we treat them as alternative perspectives, something other than health, something that isn’t mainstream. That time is over. We have to take health back and claim what it always was supposed to be for everyone. Health is the centerpiece, not an alternative. Disease, in fact, is the alternative. 


Recently, I typed “what is the health industry” into Google, and didn’t get any results! Google converted my question into “what is the healthcare industry” and answered that question instead. Just imagine! A search engine that can give you results for even the most obscure question could not answer a simple question about the health industry. Why? Because we don’t have a health industry! We have health-care. We care about health–but we don’t know what it is. We don’t have an auto-care industry or housing-care industry, because we know what automobiles and housing are. Not so for health. This is a case of ignorance dressed up in titles, of the naked emperor waltzing around clothed only by words he himself doesn’t understand. When you look closely, you will see that the problem is not that we don’t understand disease. Let us take the territory of health back. Let us not yield it to those who would define it incompletely and have us live within those walls. 


Integrative medicine is the effort to include various perspectives on healing. If you look at the root of such perspectives, including Ayurveda, Yoga, and Traditional Chinese Medicine, they do not fit within the materialist philosophy that underlies Allopathy. Very few people talk about this. Integrative medicine cannot truly be practiced within a materialist philosophy. Therefore, the next step all of the integrative medicine centers have to take is to realize that the primacy of consciousness is staring them in the face, uncomfortable as it is. We have to recognize what we are looking at. If integrative medicine is approached from the perspective that consciousness is fundamental, it will grow in potency and coherence, as all the different healing systems can be perfectly structured in that framework without minimizing and misinterpreting them. That includes Allopathy, because from the perspective of the primacy of consciousness, we can even take the brain or body as a primary focus, understanding that these are cognitively stitched perceptual agglomerations, not independent entities unto themselves. This is the future of integrative medicine, or shall I say, the future of medicine itself, and the present of health.


If we look at integrative medicine at an even more granular level, we will see that it too is supported by Nutrition, Movement, Connection, and Rest–Numocore. In fact, you will find Numocore as the foundation of every healing system, whether ancient or modern, whether Ayurveda or Functional medicine. Why? Because Numocore is what is fundamental to human sustenance and development. Numocore is the true primary medicine. If a system disregards Nutrition, Movement, Connection, and Rest, it can at best be complementary. This is why Allopathy is the true complementary medicine, contrary to what the marketing tells us. Allopathy does not emphasize what is fundamental; it modifies disease. Without Allopathy, many human beings could still live well, but without Numocore, life stops. So, which is primary and which is complementary? Every healing system has its strength and its own unique approach, and all are founded on Numocore, which is accessible to every single person.

UA: Essentially, your viewpoint is in line with Advaitic or nondual framework of to understand reality. I’ve been curious as to why the traditional framework and terminology in Hindu philosophy was insufficient to express your experiences.

Dr. AK: The work is certainly inspired by Advaita and consistent with Advaita. The thing about Advaita is there are many kinds. Kevala, Vishishta etc. A beauty of Advaita is that it is open to interpretation in different ways, whereas I want to be crystal clear about what the Three Minds Framework is saying. It is a foundation for healing in every sense of the word, integrating every aspect of our lives. So there has to be a consistency there, especially when we are talking about health systems, philosophies, science, and such. 

Furthermore, the Three Minds Framework reconciles what I see as the most important aspects of experience. Remember that this framework was born not for fun and not to create something that is different from something else, but rather out of necessity. When there was a change in how I was experiencing this world, I had to make a choice. Either I would have to leave society in some way, or I would stay. If I was going to stay, I was not going to keep quiet, or rather I could not keep quiet. So, I needed a language that was accessible to people. I wanted to put the upshot up front: 

There are three main ways of experiencing this world. When you see this, you will experience and understand yourself and this world radically differently in a way perfectly consistent with science, philosophy, and most importantly, your moment-to-moment daily life. 

Everything is up front right there. The fruit is right in front of a person's eyes, not at the back of the book and not something to be realized or approached after many years or many texts. If one understands just the very beginning of what the Three Minds Framework suggests, that is enough. Their life has changed. Just as I say Numocore is a way to approach health and the Three Minds, Advaita would say sadhana (dedicated practices of various kinds) is a way to approach self-realization. They are similar statements but in different language with different levels of detail for a different time and audience. 

UA: And so please demarcate and differentiate your Whole Human Anatomy framework from the traditional 5-koshas framework?

Dr. AK: The 5 - koshas is similar to our Whole Human Anatomy. I've changed the order a little bit and also a couple of the layers. Specifically, the energetic body is not just prana but refers to specific energetic structures like chakras. The informational body is not there in the 5 - koshas. It represents the union of all space-time dimensions, mental, physical, and otherwise. The informational body was added to represent the expansion that happens as a person moves into deeper levels of consciousness, and also because the concept of information is critical today and can connect philosophy and science. These are some of the differences. The inspiration is of course the same, which is our full nature. Another way of saying this is that what is true is always true, no matter in which culture and what language.

(Refer to:

UA: Have you adequately paid homage to the cultural/spiritual background of your work? Because it is rooted in it, it could have been an opportunity to emphasize that these things have been talked about for hundreds of years in India…

Dr. AK: This is of course connected to the culture of India, and it is also connected to cultures beyond India. The inspiration of unnamed beings from India and elsewhere flows through this work, as well as named guides such as Shirdi Sai Baba, and heroes like Adi Sankara, Vivekananda, and Chinmayananda. Indian phraseology also shows up occasionally, such as in my article on the mathematics of Tat Tvam Asi. India has given the world so much and has much more to share. The focus for me is bringing this universal knowledge to all in a way they can receive it.

UA: How are you implementing your mission?

Dr. AK:  Our team Is building a health discovery ecosystem, which will include a digital platform, research center, and physical campus. Our goal is to create infrastructure that helps the world move through the transition it is going through now from disease to health. Many standard narratives that have held for decades and centuries are beginning to crumble–for example, what health is and what it takes. This means we have to create a supportive, generative space for conversation, learning, questioning, having fun, and laughing, all while we heal. We don't have a true health-focused space to do that now–not across the full breadth and depth of what health implies.

For example, the U.S. has the National Institutes of Health, but they should actually be called the National Institutes of Disease because disease is what they study. We have disease discovery, as evidenced by the ever-growing number of diseases we are creating, and we have drug discovery, which seems to be the goal of the pharma industry. Why do we not care to discover health? Who is championing health discovery? Health Revolution is.

Our definition of health is wholeness, and the horizon of human potential. Health is already our nature, and at the same time, health is also the horizon we are ever moving toward. We are the part and the whole, at the same time. And the movement of recognizing that we are already whole is what we call healing. This is our beauty–all of us, each of us. This living experience is what we will bring to people. We are assembling the team to bring this to life.

UA: Is the medical community listening? Have you been able to change anything concretely around you?

Dr. AK: The medical community is listening. We get many supportive comments from doctors, nurses, and administrators about how this is needed and how it’s so refreshing. Almost everybody knows how much this is needed. The thing is that while people are within the healthcare system, they find it difficult to change the structure, because it pays the salaries. So, we will get a lot of voice support but structural change happens much more slowly. That is why we are building an ecosystem to discover health itself rather than waiting for only incremental change.

The most concrete change we see is the change that people experience in their lives. When people open to this fuller experience of what health is, and when they realize the capacity they have, it is powerful. Sometimes the healing is physical. Other times it’s mental or in some other way, but there is always an opening and possibility that starts to come through. In another sense, when a physician says to me “That’s so cool that you’re doing this,” what they’re also saying is “Thank you for letting me breathe.” That is healing as well.


UA: If comfortable, please share a few of your mystical experiences?

Dr. AK: I've spoken about some of these in the past only to show people that things are possible. Many people are having such experiences, but if an emergency physician talks about it, people may tend to take it more seriously and it can show a different side of reality, so I have talked about some of them. I can’t talk about the majority of experiences because it does not fit into language. That’s why a lot of this work we are doing is to put that which cannot or has not been put into language, into language. For that, a certain process has to happen with the mindbody so what is shared can be more than a fantastic tale. This is the process of healing and discovering health that we are fostering through the Health Revolution ecosystem. I want to tell a sufficient number of experiences to open a door, but then the majority of the work is in fully opening that door and walking through it. In terms of mystical experiences, I see nothing more wondrous than this experience we are having right now. If one sees this experience right now, whatever it is, completely, then the mystery, beauty, possibility, and fullness are right here.

UA: The purpose of human life? Where do you think we are in the evolutionary process as a race?

Dr. AK: The purpose of life is to be yourself, fully. If you are fully yourself, everything else will happen. The more you think you have to be like somebody else, the more you will need something else. What does it mean to be fully oneself? Who are we, beyond the boundaries of our current personality and skin? What are the roots from which these grow? These are the questions to be lived as we discover our full selves. 

It's tough to answer the question about where we are evolutionarily. It depends on the criteria we use and what civilization we compare ourselves to. I suppose I might say that we are not as advanced as we are told in school. We consider ourselves an advanced civilization, but I still see wires hanging from telephone poles and wires carrying electrical energy to our homes. That to me is not an advanced civilization. We surely have knowledge and technology beyond that. Furthermore, if I can eat food from anywhere in the world by using a food delivery app, and a few miles away someone cannot afford a meal, that is not an advanced society. We are largely a distracted society. Distracted from our deeper nature, from the nature of this world, from what is happening in our world, and from what we are capable of.

UA: Where are we heading as a civilization? Are you hopeful?

Dr. AK: We are in the midst of a transition from dis-ease to health. That means a good kind of disillusionment is happening. Who wants to stay in illusion anyway? It has to be dispelled! I see a series of choices before me, and I make the choices that I feel are the right ones. The outcomes take care of themselves because they are a result of our choices. If one needs hope, then by all means, there is hope because your choices matter. But perhaps even greater than hope is capacity. If you have capacity, you don't need to hope. And we all have capacity! Let’s use it!

UA: Do you feel there is a need to overhaul the traditional guise of the Guru—in India, where historically the greatest achievement is moksha, not a material standard? With that comes a tendency to deify individuals who perceive consciousness. If it is a matter of natural evolution, do you think the culture of deification needs to shift as well?

Dr. AK: There will always be a place for the guru in certain situations. If there is a true guru, the person changes. You can think of a guru as a tuning fork. When you align, your vibration will change, your life will change. Such tuning forks will always be looked up to by those who are aligned with them. It’s helpful to understand that if they have a human form, then they have human tendencies too. That’s part of life. It’s part of the fun actually. If a person doesn’t understand that, they are likely to get lost or bewildered. We are all humans, being in one way or another. On a related note, we need to change the way we look at what we call spiritual awakening, moksha, and enlightenment, and what we call mental illness as well. Many people recognized as gurus would be called “mentally ill” if placed in another cultural context. What does that tell us? All experiences we have fall on some range of human response and development within cultural contexts. Medical science doesn’t really understand the mind, so there’s little chance we will understand what we believe to be “mental illness,” “mental health,” moksha, and so on. We must do a better job of understanding these processes before we label and judge others (good or bad), which begins with Numocore and understanding ourselves.

UA: Who is/are your Guru (s) or spiritual mentor(s)?

Dr. AK: All the beings I listed previously (Shirdi Sai Baba, Swami Chinmayananda, etc.,) have had a profound influence on my life.

UA: Do you experience moments of frustration with the gap of what you know so clearly from your mystical insights to where things are in life?

Dr. AK: Sometimes, yes. Sometimes one sentence has to be unpacked over 10 years. One has to be steady in holding a particular frequency so that things come across with minimal misunderstanding. Everything I do and say as part of this work is to bridge that apparent gap. I say apparent because in the deeper view there is no gap. There is no fundamental difference between what we call science and what we call spirituality. Both engage subjectivity and objectivity. Similarly, there is no fundamental difference between the First Mind and the Second Mind. It is an apparent difference because of the configuration of identity. This apparent difference is what we bridge through sharing energy in the form of concepts, relationships, actions, love, and presence. In the bigger picture, we each have our lot to do in this lifetime, and ups and downs are part of it. Moving with the landscape brings satisfaction that makes it worth it and more.

UA: When a recognizable professional has supreme mystical experiences, people are likely to listen. And your gift of communication, free from dogma, rooted in a clear vision of how your spiritual knowledge can inform, enlighten, and transform, we need to pay attention. Because, there is the opportunity to overhaul the medical system itself–which is your intention. I wish you many listeners. Thank you. Namaskaram

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